Tuesday, August 24, 2004

Cost of being an IBO

Note: All calculations are in CAD.

Hello guys. I’ll try to give you an idea how much a serious / core IBO is suppose to spend in a month. I was told many times that there is no investment involved in this business. All I have to do is redirect my current expenses, teach others to do the same and viola! I’ll be a millionaire. While there is not a huge up front cost, monthly expenses are not affordable for the majority. And average IBO, according to Quixtar, makes $115 gross i.e. before expenses.

a typical serious IBO spend:

$60 STO (Standing order, tapes and books)
$24 open meetings (1 meeting per week, usually on Tuesday costing $6 / person or couple)
$100 / month on seminars (6 conferences, 4 major conferences, and if you have hit 600 PV or above at least once, you got to go to atleast 2 “leadership” trips. One trip costs AT LEAST $200 / person. Expenses are travel, ticket and hotel. If you are a couple, it comes near $300. With babies, add baby sitting cost)
300 PV = $650 extra (300 PV is actually $750 as $2.5 = 1 PV but I subtracted $100 I saved by avoiding Wal-Mart)
$50 on Shipment, GST + PST of products
$100 extra fuel
$21 communiKate (Lite, not full version)
$10 website
= $1015 / month (extra)

If you do 50 PV retail, according to Quixtar rules, it’ll put 50 * 2.5 = 125 + retail profit = $200 back in your pocket making it $815. But please ask yourself;

  • Do you really retail 50 PV?
  • Is it taught to you as much as other stuff?
  • How many products have you sold at retail cost?

But on other hand, your conference expense might go up if you are a couple or need baby sitting etc.

Please note that I’m not trying to give you an exaggerated version of the cost. I’m

  • Talking about a plugged IBO, who is supposed to do 300 PV. In plan they show 100 PV, but when you become "serious", 300 PV is a must.
  • Not including leadership tapes
  • I drive Toyota corolla so my fuel expense was relatively less. And fuel is more expensive now.
  • I used communiKate Lite here, not full version
  • Cost of website is more now I guess. One Domain right?
  • In calculating conference expenses I stayed extremely low profile, calculating single person cost only.
  • I did not include the cost of lit packs, extra prospecting tapes and ridiculously expensive brochures. $30 for six peaces of paper!
  • I'm assuming you’ll not lose any lit pack / tape.
  • I did not include the cost of banquets and rallies in your city, as I am unable to determine their frequency. I’ve been into 6 of them in 9 months but Toronto is a big city! They usually cost $20 bucks.
  • You might say: So what, I’ll get tax benefit. I’ll write more on that soon. But the products purchased while chasing PV target are not tax deductibles.

So it comes to $800ish per month, if you are a core IBO, single person, don't need a baby sitter and retail 50PV at retail cost. And while many people bear them, what are their odds of making enough income? Please read the diamond myths while we are on that. And how much an IBO makes? Average income of an IBO (according to Quixtar): $1400 / year (That is gross, expenses not included. Sneaky eh!)

Chance of becoming a millionaire from Quixtar: 0.022%
Total number of Millionaire households in America: 4-6%

Just two last questions:

Did you know that cost of running this business will be this much?
If not then you were lied to.

Do you tell your prospects what is the cost of running this business?
If you don’t then you are lying.

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At 8/25/2004 10:44:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Excellent read!!!!

I am incredibly excited - the person who pitched the whole idea to me tried getting a hold of me last evening to setup a time to get together again. I can't wait to hear their reaction when I tell them I am not interested. I may even go as far as to have them over to my house and let them think they still have a chance. Of course, my motivation for having them over would be more of a soul-saving venture than anything else. Maybe if I lay the religion on real thick, they will think twice about going to someone elses house down the road.

Thanks for all the info you have provided, I hope that they have been fully schooled on how to respond to some of this. I will update you later ;)

At 8/25/2004 01:25:00 PM, Blogger Loser said...

I can't wait to hear your story :) and Good luck.

At 8/26/2004 09:35:00 AM, Blogger Wild-Thrasher said...


I took a call last night from the girl that I had originally given my phone number to. She mentioned that they were looking to get together with me within the next hour or maybe this evening. Neither worked with my schedule and I have plans to go out of town this weekend. I started thinking that I should just let them off the hook rather than drag them on so I told her that I really wasn't interested in their plan, but thanked them for taking the time to show it to me. I hung up the phone an within 3 minutes my phone rings again - its the guy who actually showed me the plan.

He said that he heard I was having some second-thoughts on coming on board (2nd thoughts??? I was pretty sure my decision was made in the beginning). He asked why - I gave a couple of standard reasons, It's not for me, Not sure I want to invest in something like this, etc... He said he understood and asked if I knew of anyone else who might be interested in taking a look at it. I went through my list of contacts to try and come up with the phone number of someone I really hated, but I didn't have one come to mind. I said "No" and said I would let him know if I thought of anyone. As I was about to hang up he says, "Oh hey, did I give you a packet of info? I'm going to have to get that back from you."..........

ahhh - the game continues. :)

At 8/30/2004 02:55:00 AM, Blogger Loser said...

Funny :) I love the idea of recommending some one who you really hate :) what a revenge.

But again, like you, I don't hate some one that much, except the people who are already in.

It's sickening how shamelessly they rip off people who are already struggling financially. Which, almost every body is.

At 9/02/2004 02:27:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Both of you are probably going to have simple lives with no success. Its people like you that are the jokes of this world. You honestly think you will make a difference in anybodies life. Sucks to be you two losers.

At 9/02/2004 05:00:00 PM, Blogger Loser said...

>>Both of you are probably going to have simple lives with no success.
Why? Chances of success is Quixtar: hmm, $115 / month GROSS income. We are definitely more successful than that. Hell, a pizza delivery guy makes more than that.
>> Its people like you that are the jokes of this world.
- What we did that we are considered as the jokes? We decided not to do a particular thing? At least we both used our real name. What about people like you who scam other people?
>>You honestly think you will make a difference in anybodies life.
We are. Many people have made the decision after reading this and linked sites.
>>Sucks to be you two losers.
You want me to paste your IP and ISP buddy?

At 5/20/2005 12:00:00 PM, Anonymous R. Cook said...

I think you have a valid point but I was wondering.. how much of that $650 was stuff you used to buy before you got involved. So you can't count that amount. Also you said that "Average IBO" made $115 which is well published in the hand out materials. It also states the definition of an "Average IBO" as someone who showed one presentation during the year and a lot of other silly qualifications. I don't know about you guys but I certainly wasn't made to be average especially not by that definition. Have any of you actually priced out what it would cost to open a typical business like a Mortgage company? Once you find out you might take a second look. Don't worry, I'm not trying to change your mind. The business isn't for everyone. Some people enjoy being an employee and never having to worry about anything, except maybe when they are going to get let go. I think that if you are going to put a post up like this with a cost analysis, you should also say that everything you listed here is optional. You didn't have to go to the 600PV leadership. That was a choice you made. The tools and meetings are all optional and you have a SIX MONTH guarantee on everything so if you loose money, it's your fault! Just think that you should tell the whole truth and not just someone's point of view on that truth.

At 5/21/2005 07:52:00 PM, Blogger Loser said...

Sigh! This is my pet peeve: ppl not reading full post and commenting on it.

I think you have a valid point but I was wondering.. how much of that $650 was stuff you used to buy before you got involved. So you can't count that amount.

I wrote, and included in my calculations

300 PV = $650 extra (300 PV is actually $750 as $2.5 = 1 PV but I subtracted $100 I saved by avoiding Wal-Mart)

Have any of you actually priced out what it would cost to open a typical business like a Mortgage company?

I do my consulting business part time. Why would you assume that every one is an employee and only an employee?

You didn't have to go to the 600PV leadership. That was a choice you made. The tools and meetings are all optional and you have a SIX MONTH guarantee on everything so if you loose money, it's your fault!

Many people who lose money in fraud make thhat choice. But fraud is still a crime. Robbery and Fraud are two different things, but both are ctimes.

If you are in this business say a year, u can only return the material you purchased for last 6 months. So first 6 months $$ is gone right? There are some other restrictions as well. E.g. "personal use tapes" fiasco.

If my upline refused, which they did, I can not go to court. BSMAA. How many IBOs know that they're giving up their right to go to court in case of a dispute when they sign up for Quixtar? BSMAA is a joke as well.

if you loose money, it's your fault!

If I sell you car, without telling you it won't work on 99% of roads etc. And I happen to be your friend and you buy the car without much testing. Whose fault is this?

Just think that you should tell the whole truth and not just someone's point of view on that truth.

I think I am but....Who am I? This whole blog is just my point of view. I try my best to present my experience as honestly as possible, but

- I'm not a journalist
- I'm not paid
- I'm not your or government employee.

While many people agree with me, except current IBOs of course, this is certainly not a government or court document. This is one blog, out of millions.

If you want to point out some fault, please do so. E.g. I agree with your points here:

- The business isn't for everyone. - Some people enjoy being an employee and never having to worry about anything, except maybe when they are going to get let go.

At 4/09/2006 01:48:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a quixtar IBO (started up in August) and I am doing really well currently. I got my money's worth already. I have 5 IBO's right now and I am at around 700 PV. All you do is change your buying habits and talk to people about a great opportunity.

I don't recommend people going to the conferences. They are all based on motivation and it is not that hard to do.

At 4/09/2006 01:52:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

and by the way.... you guys are right about Quixtar. You didn't make it far because you didn't spend time on your buisness. This program is SIMPLE!!! I am 20 years old and a college kid and I am at 700 PV easily.

By the way, have fun washing my Lexus.

At 5/02/2007 10:45:00 PM, Anonymous Dave R said...

I am glad to see someone that has taken the time to calculate just what a rip-off this quixtar thing is. I had a couple take advantage of the fact that they knew my wife and me from high school to get into our house to try to sell us into this garbage. Oh wow, I can save "up to 25%" off a bunch of overpriced goods. Where do I sign up?!?!?!? The sad part about this whole scam is that it seems to prey on mothers that want the opportunity to spend time at home with their kids. I know they mean well, really! When I told the guy that I wasn't interested because I found the website and compared their prices and felt that it was stupid to pay so much for something that I could get at the store, he acted mad that I somehow cracked into quixtar's website. He said, "only members can get in there." And to the guy that was talking about startup costs. It cost me less than $2000 to get my property and casualty license, life and health license, series 6 and 63 and I made more money in my first month of self employment than the average quixstar IBO makes in a year.

At 8/13/2007 06:06:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are these the same douchebags who push the "Sip twice, sit, and earn" XS Energy Drink? My neighbor tried to recruit me.

At 8/13/2007 06:13:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I am 20 years old and a college kid and I am at 700 PV easily.
By the way, have fun washing my Lexus."

SURE. That's the other scam - living way beyond your means to fool people into thinking you're making a lot of money at this. Go read Merchants of Deception and WAKE UP! Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

At 8/22/2007 03:51:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have a neighbor who pushed this crap on us and when he got a "no", no more hi's, no more waves, no more my two little girls playing with his little girl when he is home......and yeah, he drives a nice car I guess - because it's from his other job!!....his wife borrows things (simple things like sugar, detergent, etc.) from us due to not ordering it ahead of time of the internet, and not to mention the amount of time the parents are away from their kids, I swear the babysitters are raising their kids...the wife told me she spends upwards of $700 a month on babysitting for their 4 kids while they are at meetings or at conferences.....I enjoy being with my children thank you, don't want my kids being raised by anyone else, let alone a 17 yr old teenager..........oh, they try to live the "high life", but the entire neighorhood knows the truth and has refused the scam!!

At 10/01/2007 09:47:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My husband is in this quixtar thing..and I'm not... but I'm confused about this IBO business... I never hear good things about this business, only bad...sad... I hope my husband doesn't put me in debt..???

At 12/23/2007 09:36:00 PM, Anonymous mike tep said...

Hey everyone can have an opinion on things... but yes alot of people fail at quixtar/Amway.. whatever you want to call it.. but my parents got in at 27 years old and retired themselves at 28 years old... they are in their 50's and still retired.. i am 22 years old and have never seen my parents work..i have had a great life filled with vacations and having my parents there for me my older brother and younger sister.. so it can be done.. my brother is almost retired himself in it.. me not interested in doing it now.. but one day i might.. quixtar isnt bad.. its just the experience you might have had with it.. maybe the people you were involed with.. who knows..

At 1/11/2008 10:29:00 PM, Anonymous serge said...

Hello guys, just stop whining, i started doing this six months ago and im already doing 3500 PV, what does that tell you? go out there and show the plan, use quality products, thats all it takes,. My upline is Emerald, last year he made 120,000.00 isn't that nice? Like mike said that you just had bad experience or just had couple nos. thats all. Thank you!

At 1/09/2009 12:47:00 PM, Anonymous Cliff said...

Dude, you must have either been 1)really bad with money, 2)had a terrible upline or 3) have no common sense. I've been an IBO for 4 years. I'm at the top of the bonus scale and have 3 platinum legs (2 in 1 group and on in second group) I have never even come close to spending that much money per month. I'll break down cost for you.

4 Major conferences a year $80/per
Weekly open class $3/per
Standing order monthly $40/per
Communikate(we dont use) $0/per
Products(samples/personal) $260/per
Gas/tolls $75/per
Leaderships $ free

That $415 dollars a month which def looks like a lot because i said the same thing when i got it right after college. However, the products i got from Wawa, target, walmart,etc and the quality doesn't compare. The prices on quixtar is ridiculously cheap when you compare them to Clinique, red bulls, MAC make up, GNC and department stores. That's all right off the bat. Not to mention that you get CASH back on EVERYTHING you purchase. I get 25% back on EVERY SINGLE DOLLAR is spend and I get a percentage of the total amount of money my team generates.
So lets go back to the math.
$260*25% cash back $65/per
4%of my team ($80k) $3200/per
Total $3265/per month

Let's finish the math
=$2850 of pure profit, not to mention that ALL of my expenses outside of the stuff that i use personally are tax deductable.

Those are only 2 of my current income streams of my personal business. I make about 8 more and do pretty well. I'm not a millionaire or even a hundredthousandaire (yes, i know it's not a real word) but i can pay my fiances medical bill because he condition isn't covered by her employers insurance.

I don't want to get you guys involved because i don't want anyone in our business that we have to convince after showing factual numbers but i do want you guys to know whats real and really possible.

At 1/28/2009 11:20:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

@Cliff: You can say anything online but show us some proof of your called success (example, scan of your profit/loss statement)

At 3/09/2009 10:16:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just retailed 1200 dollars of product in my first 7 days. Hmm, wasn't really that hard. What's funny about this "fraud" claims all over the net is that if they check with the companies they actually work for, they're more than likely not accredited with the BBB, and if they are doesn't even have a rating close to Amways. 50 year old company, debt free. If you ask me, the only scams in this business are the people who get in, don't do the work, get out then complain about how they "didn't make money". I wonder what you do that's so important to the U.S. economy for you to make those statements, let alone why I've met multiple millionaires (who've made their millions before this business) want in on this business. Hmm, is there something you know that they don't, or does your annual financial statement for taxes prove a different point? Bottom line is, you need to go home, contact the FTC, then contact the U.S. chamber of commerce. Have a great day.

At 4/19/2009 08:59:00 PM, Blogger msaladrigas said...

Amway Global is the best company to initiate your own business..if you didn't know how to do your business or you didn't understand it ,don't go around talking nonsense..keep working 8 hours or more for a salary and let others guide your destiny, tell you exactly what to do, at what time and put a price on you. Have a blessed day and I proudly say I am an IBO

At 6/01/2009 08:58:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

WOW....I joined the Army...went to college on Uncle Sam’s dime. Graduated with degrees in physics, and engineering and the guy that washes my truck keeps trying to get me in on this super duper Quixtar garbage. I design electronic systems for DOD contracts. I hear a lot about the rarely seen "successful IBO" yet the only guys that seem to be making "millions" sell you other dumb half wits, books, tapes, and motivational garbage. I make well over 6 figures, working my 8 hour day for my paltry 165k a year paycheck with full benefits, paid vacation, a company car and stock options. I will retire at 45-50 with millions in the bank, with my houses and cars paid off. If you want to get rich...work hard, and get an education, not Quixtar.

At 7/21/2009 03:50:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I didn't join the army, in fact I'm a college drop and a VP for a publishing company in the health and fitness industry NETTING over 215k annually with all your hoopla and more in benefits. But there's one thing I know partnering with Amway Global is offering that both our jobs is not, freedom of time and money! My money has it that you've probably never seen the compensation plan. If you have, the numbers will clearly represent itself. Here's a challenge to you and your career, if you're doing so well, quit your job today and really see how well your benefits take care of you. Better yet, will your benefits to your family and see if the company will keep processing your paychecks to them. While you're at it, check out your stock portfolio and find out which investment has substantially grown by at least a 15% margin, unless you're bragging about your 401k and awesome pension, then whoop-tee-do! By the way, I barely have my GED and taken 2 years at a Junior College without a degree to show for. Let's compare my investment in education in time verses yours, then discuss investing into education, which by the way I applaud you for serving our country. If you didn't know, the Amway corporation was founded by 2 gentleman who also served our country with the idea to have products made in America, paying good American wages to American workers based on Christian beliefs. Every product Amway exclusively provides is made in America on American soil. You should really look up Aida, MI, then research Great Falls, and look at the impact the 2 founding family's have made. Hence, totally and completely advocating the American Way or better known as Amway. If you're a true patriot, do your homework before you mouth off about a company you have no idea about. For someone who's so well educated, you really lack your researching skills.

At 5/04/2010 06:29:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What i don't get is that when i was drawn in to the whole concept they spoke about everyone needing to establish a dream and that the future of the world would be Ecommerce.. But who would be working the tough fought out labor that keeps the world growning? i mean when we have trucks or oilwells that need to be built a networking site isn't going to do it? i had my mentor lie to me about numerous things claiming his wife was hispanic when she really was an east indian. Realistically the odds of you brainwashing someone into viral networking are almost never guaranteed. if you have to get 6 people to jointhe same task and have those same people each find 6 other etc.. it won't happen. i've been approached and seen some upcoming IBO's make fools out of themselves attempting the networking method and it's sad to know that it's not working for them... It's said not to be a pyramid scheme, but People such as Brad duncan and other will always be at the top since they started earlier. theres no way of surpassing them... so how does it not fall into a pyramid?? i mean since they began the networking scheme they'll always get the highest share from all the networking buddies they rattled together? their profit is based off of the other small and large success and when that happens it feeds their pockets the most.

At 6/13/2011 02:39:00 PM, Anonymous Energy Drinks said...

hmmm its a fun to be listen a story...
Thanks for the wonderful post.

At 8/04/2011 01:30:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

All of this info is false about the meetings. they do not need to be attended. You wasting all that money is your fault. I just started last month and in my first month of business I already have over 300pv. I only bought on product and it only gave me 6pv I'm 19 years old in Soph in college. My first paycheck will be a lot better than most people. If u think u are spiting the person u hate ur actually offering them a great opportunity to get ahead. I see you talking about the statistics of how many millionaires there are doing this, but the simple fact is u can make more money doing this than the average job. Not to mention the Business to Business section is where most of the money is made. Its people like you who lead people astray. Ask me how I'm doing so well not this fool. Just because a person cannot do something well doesn't mean that other people should take advice from him. Ask the guys who are successful at this how well it can work not this loser. Why am I talking to ignorant people? I'm done have a nice life.

At 8/15/2011 09:16:00 AM, Blogger king 9k5 said...

Slobodan Rajkovic is hopeful that he will soon be granted a work permit to begin his career with Chelsea.Buy Anavar Rajkovic signed for Chelsea in 2005 when aged just 16, and the Blues paid some £4million for him -hotels in galway a world record at the time for somebody under 18.

At 9/11/2012 06:12:00 AM, Anonymous Ray said...

I am always surprised when a marketer tells lies to a prospect. Don't they think they are going to get caught out?? Well written I enjoyed they way you put it but sorry for your experience. I am not an IBO as such but do run my own online business and I would be totally disappointed in myself if I presented something that needed telling lies about In fact I feel bad even if someone thought I was telling lies. Great stuff!


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