Saturday, February 10, 2007

Biggest flaw with MLM

In my opinion, biggest flaw with MLM is constant need to grow. I do free lance software development and server maintenance. I'll be happy if I keep on getting what I've been getting in past few months. But if MLM is not growing, it means majority is not even profitable.

Lets say there is an MLM Quixtar. Lets say they make around a Billion every year for past four years. Good for Quixtar, but does that means it is good for IBOs?

There could be two scenarios.

- Pretty much every IBO is where he was. 100 PV is @ 100 PV, 1000 PV is @ 1000 PV. Platinum is platinum. It should be good if they are profitable at those levels.

Or
  • # of new 100 PV = # of 100 PV who are 100 PV no more.
  • # of new 1000 PV = # of 1000 PV who are 1000 PV no more.
  • # of new Platinums = # of Platinums no more.
2nd scenario is more likely. What does that mean? Lot more work to build a team given the attrition rate? Sponsor 100 and 99 quit? It is like trying to fill a glass with pores in the bottom.

So...If you are in MLM,
  • Are you profitable at your current level?
  • Does your profit justifies the time and effort you put it?
  • At what level it justifies?
  • Are you at that level?
  • How many people can be at that level at a given time?
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50 Comments:

At 2/11/2007 12:04:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dude listen, I don't know who you are but after looking at your nickname I have doubts about you. Simply put, who are you? Are you the owner of Quixtar? Are you an IBO? I doubt you are any of those. If you were, you wouldn't choose that nickname, would you? What qualifies you to give an analysis of this business in view of your nickname?

 
At 2/11/2007 02:01:00 PM, Anonymous QuixtarDemolisher said...

Hello Mr.Quixtarsucks. We are a huge group of people in ORKUT, who are actively involved in helping innocent desis new to US, from getting trapped in Quixtar. Please join my community in orkut. The link is below.
Thankyou.
http://www.orkut.com/Community.aspx?cmm=24145503

 
At 2/12/2007 11:38:00 AM, Blogger Loser said...

who are you?

Former IBO. 2002 - 2003.

Glad you like my nickname. It is funny because all the hatred we IBOs were taught against "Losers". Well let me tell ya, life is quite rewarding to "Losers" i.e. IBOs who quit.

No matter what nick I choose, I have a right to analyze anything I want to.

 
At 2/15/2007 10:37:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Mr. Q*SUX,
I agree with you, and this does make sense. Any intelligent business person should be able to breakdown the numbers to find the growth/profit potential in their selected field of endeavor. This is just one reporting schema that business people develop to figure out profitability and longevity. Thanks for the truthful post.

 
At 2/18/2007 08:02:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You say that you will be happy if you will get what you already got in the past few months, right? I'm not sure I understand now... you say that MLM is flawed and somehow you got good results... you sure you are who you say you are? Hmmm... interesting analysis but I don't think you are a credible guy so I will look somewhere else.

 
At 2/21/2007 06:06:00 PM, Blogger Loser said...

you say that MLM is flawed and somehow you got good results

I get good results in my non-mlm stuff you moron.

 
At 2/23/2007 10:42:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hearing the stupid comments by people at rallys and stuff really disgusts me. It's people like this who don't contribute to society. What happened to the good old days when people wanted to give their life meaning and impact lives in a positive way? Money is important but there is no question that it should not be worshiped. I went to one of the rallys and one of the fags dared to say, "Just say your mother's birthday is on the same day of the rally, well you just let her know that you have something going on right now and that you'll make it up to her in the future.." F THAT 1 million times! Family comes first! What if it was your mother's last birthday and you couldn't make it because of your meetings...F THAT. Quixtar teaches about saving money to spend time with family...well if you can't treasure your time now and prioritize family as first, whose to say you will in the future you money hungry SOBs. Live life happy where money doesn't rule your world...find a job to love and you will be able to make society a better place and be with family....Doctors, Architects, Engineers all enjoy what they do. The world would not be the same if everyone was a Quixtar zombie.

 
At 2/23/2007 05:50:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Hearing the stupid comments by people at rallys and stuff really disgusts me."

So, you prefer to hear your boss' stupid comments on a regular basis if you happen to have such a boss? It does disgust me to hear that. That is why I am doing something about it with a Quixtar powered business. Read www.thisbiznow.com and see what credible people have to say not what some internet jokers claim to label as credible.

"It's people like this who don't contribute to society."

Honestly, I don't know what your idea of society is but based on your statement I don't really care about the type of society you portray. I want to have control over my life and not someone else. With time, money, choices and friends I can positively change the lives of people I meet. Working for a boss 9 to 5 does not help me to achieve that and contributes to his dreams not mine. So, no deal there. When I help someone to get what they want, I automatically get what I want. That is my idea of contribution.

"What happened to the good old days when people wanted to give their life meaning and impact lives in a positive way?"

Read the comments to the second quotation above.

"Doctors, Architects, Engineers all enjoy what they do."

Really? Not all! They do enjoy the profession if it matches their passion but not the concept of trading time for dollars. 100% of people go to a job for the #1 reason: money, not necessarily because they enjoy their jobs. See, reductionist thinking; just because I think all do enjoy what they do, it means all do. You remind me of some people with a similar view and guess what? They are the ones who struggle in life and make fun of dreamers. Dreamers detach themselves from the average and live their dreams.

"Live life happy where money doesn't rule your world...find a job to love and you will be able to make society a better place and be with family...."

Money does rule your world because the world revolves around money. No money, no funny! You are broke! You love to live on social insurance, don't you? Not me! Besides that, I found no job that I love, no job that gives me freedom over my life, the money I want, the choices that I can have and yet I hold a BA in Computer Science. I am 26 now but don't want to spend my next 40 years in terror and subjugation. I want to live life not survive. I want to provide the necessities for my future wife and kids. I want to spend quality time with them every single day, do what we want to do every single day and at any given time during the day. Not you, you don't have that dream, you are busted and hopeless because of your mindset.

 
At 3/03/2007 04:15:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great BLOG, I wish I had seen this stuff before I went anywhere near some fool who wanted to show me "the plan". But I didn't. So I got my 4000 pin, after about 5 months, and bought the over priced products, CD's and books. Baby I was dreaming big.

Then when I had to renew my annual Quixtar fee I did the math and realized between "system", meetings, seminars, travel and time away from my family I was being hosed.

This doesn't even take into account the time I spent showing "the plan" to others, coincidentaly, the majority of whom wanted nothing to do with the whole scam.

So now I work my 9-5 and spend time at home with my kids and wife in the evening and on weekends instead of chasing all over the countryside. I still dream big, of grandkids one day and taking them fishing. Fortunatly I have quit Quixtar so I'll have time to do that.

 
At 3/10/2007 12:24:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You got your 4000 PV in 5 months! Impressive! So, you were making somewhere above $ 1200 US per month in your spare time and then you QUIT! Amazingly enough, people like you are so low when it comes to standing up for what they believe in and fight for it. One day, one obstacle, and you quit, you run to mama and cry. So, your family is proud of you, right? Instead of doing whatever it takes (you were already getting there), you listened to some whiners who screamed the word "scam" and guess what, you started to follow in their shoes too! If your 9 to 5 job allows you to do whatever you want, when you want daily, even at 11 AM or 1 PM with the money you want, either on your own terms or your boss's terms, do so. Your boss's terms.... hmmm, not quite 11 AM or 1 PM after all so, in that case it means you really must have an average mindset when it comes to time, money and choices management. Let your boss control you except, it's not you.

 
At 3/15/2007 09:27:00 PM, Blogger Chris Varvaro said...

Almost Everything Has To Keep Growing Or It Is Dying. MLM Is No Different Than A Trditional Brick And Mortat Business.
Chris Varvaro

 
At 3/28/2007 12:50:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

to "Quixtar sucks"
You must be one of those guys living in their parents basement sitting a night in underware in front of the computer writing crap.

Are you going now to the President of Circuit City, Barnes and Nobles, Modells, Foot Action, Shop.com, etc and tell them that they made very bad decisions for afiliating themselves with Quixtar?
Go ahead see what they say.

LOL.

 
At 3/28/2007 01:03:00 AM, Blogger Loser said...

President of Circuit City, Barnes and Nobles, Modells, Foot Action, Shop.com are letting IBOs buy. They let any one buy. What other "decision" they made?

 
At 3/29/2007 12:53:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Loser" (what a nickname! no wonder)

I got a question for you.
How come there's thousands upon thousands of IBO's at the platinum level? Can you answer me that?

Could you get up to the platinum level if you put all you effort and never quit?

 
At 3/29/2007 01:12:00 AM, Blogger Loser said...

Can you give me exact number of the total platinums? Something more clear "thousands upon thousands"?

 
At 3/30/2007 11:10:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Loser,

The guy has a valid point! People who do want to succeed, those with long term success vision will go Platinum and beyond. Why couldn't you? Your name speaks quite a bit in this regard.
I attended the event that brought my upline's upline wife home. I was there, I witnessed that! So yes, some people make money, some people make excuses.

 
At 3/30/2007 04:41:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Imran, how's life dude? How was your Quixtar experience, tell me more, I really need to know before I go on more deep. Thx.

 
At 4/02/2007 01:49:00 PM, Blogger tim_my5 said...

To this somebody

Anonymous said...
to "Quixtar sucks"
You must be one of those guys living in their parents basement sitting a night in underware in front of the computer writing crap.

Are you going now to the President of Circuit City, Barnes and Nobles, Modells, Foot Action, Shop.com, etc and tell them that they made very bad decisions for afiliating themselves with Quixtar?
Go ahead see what they say.

LOL.

3/27/2007 10:50:16 PM

Go ask the Presidents of Circuit City, Barnes and Nobles and your other fortune 500 companies affiliated with Quixstar if they will close their stores and just sell through quixstar.

I am sorry to tell you that they just want to reach customers where ever they may be. The more access to their business a customer has the better. Quixstar will never have exclusivity with any of your big name stores.

 
At 4/02/2007 11:36:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's more Platinums IBO's in the US than MCDonalds in the US.

Question to loser.

Can you get to the Platinum level if you put all your mind, dedication and effrort in doing so?

And answer me also, how come there's all those people in the Platinum level? How do you think they did it?
By screwing and riping off their downline?
No, cause if they do that they would be screwing up themselves don't you think?

This question is also for tim_my5

 
At 4/03/2007 12:26:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, your name in Imran Aziz, right? You go by the nickname of "Imran" too, right? And "Loser" as in Imran Aziz, The Loser. No wonder such revelation!

So, tell me, Imran Aziz, does this comment look familiar to you?

"As an eCommerce site, Quixtar is a very stupid site to use. you have to remember 6 digit a "number" ?? How stupid is that. Every other website gives you email."

June 23, 2006, 10:15 PM

http://tim.2wgroup.com/blog/archives/000346.html

All I can say is wow! How sad! You can't remember a 6 digit number that is vital to you? Then, how do you know your home phone which is 10 digits by heart, Imran Aziz?

Yes. Hilarious but naughty, true but sad. What a parody!

 
At 5/07/2007 12:55:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

MLM is flawed, because people are
flawed. If this business premise
was intrinsically wrong, it would
not produce wealth, anywhere.

This is an opportunity, like any
opportunity. There is no opportunity that will make your life better if it is lousy to start
with, or you get up every day, wondering what you can suck from your environment, including the people in it. Quixtar in particular is about business ownership. Are the majority of people business owners? No: about
95% of them work for someone else.
It takes calibre to be a business
owner, and not everyone has it.
Some of us don't take good care of
our kids, or make half assed employees. So why should a team of
adults put us in a place of trust
and authority in their lives?

Think about it: the quality of your
life reflects the nature and quality of the relationships you
have, and choose, with people around you. Quixtar is a vehicle to business ownership. Most people
never negotiate the cost of job
training or a college degree, but
stand off from this, and wonder why
they have nothing to show after six
months, or six years. Circumvent the system, complain about your
associates, and make excuses: and
then go online and say this does
not work. It did not work for you.

Quixtar has produced just enough
real success for the marginal and
mediocre to go online and bitch
about MLM, when in all probability,
they just never did the work. The
physical or the mental work. Look
at anyone who works full time to
produce a six figure income. How much work did it take? People need
to get real about this.

IBO in Philadelphia PA

 
At 5/08/2007 01:34:00 AM, Anonymous Someone Smarter than a Mindless IBO said...

Wow, so much brainwashed crap spewing from Quixtards mouths. Could I get an actual link on those "Platinums"? How about how much money and time they put in to it when they could've used that time to work their 9-5 job and made actual money without having to pay some slob meeting dues and whatnot?

In actuality, all you "IBOs" are just mindless drones working "9-5" for Quixtar but get this, you're not getting paid an actual wage. All you're doing is the retail sales work for them. You're selling their products, selling their motivational tapes, dvds, and books, selling their "plan". All for what? Just a tiny percent back on what you sell and a tiny percent from all the desperate people you sucker in below you. I'd rather invest my time in a real job and get paid with benefits and an actual salary instead of a measely 1,200 a month check that comes at the price of travel time and the purchase of uncertified unapproved products that never grazed the FDA or any of the government agencies.

Who's to even say 1,200 is enough to "retire" on? I could make much more than that with a real job. By the time you break even in Quixtar, the amount of money you could've made in that time with a real job just outshadows it.

I feel sorry for all the fools that got suckered in to this and are just too desperate to pull out, thinking that this is all an investment and that the "big break" will come soon.

Yeah, it'll come soon .. in the form of bankruptcy. Have fun, maybe I'll come back to see if any of you fools rebut me.

 
At 5/11/2007 01:51:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the previous guy, Someone Smarter than a Mindless IBO,

You should read this book written by Randy Gage: Why you are sick, dumb and broke.
It talks about you and your likes.

No, it's not a book that is part of the training system, it's a book you can find in any bookstore in the business/finances section. Ask for assistance and you will find it. Feeling nauseous already?

 
At 5/11/2007 10:03:00 PM, Anonymous Someone Smarter than a Mindless IBO said...

Last time I checked, I was healthy, about to graduate from college, and I've got a good amount of money saved up, as well as a pretty good job with the government that pays very well. I don't need to look at a dumb book to learn how to "better" myself like you fools. That's the best argument you can come up with? You didn't have anything to rebut my points. Quite sad.

When you actually break even after all the money and time you invested into Quixtar, you wouldve been much better of working an actual job and committing your time wisely. But we'll let the brainwashed propaganda from Quixtar have its way with you. I'll be back.

 
At 5/15/2007 12:24:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the previous poster... I'm sorry to hear that you don't need to look at a dumb book to learn how to "better" yourself "like you fools". That says enough about how dumb you are minus your bragging attitude about the job that saves your butt. Job saves your butt? I come from a former communist country. There, the job could save your butt with less stress but not in capitalism. The tide has turned 180 degrees.

 
At 5/15/2007 12:29:00 PM, Anonymous Someone Smarter than a Mindless IBO said...

Did you not read my post and the previous post? I was only rebutting the guy's attack on me saying I was "broke". Also, how does that relate anywhere near saying how "dumb" I am?

What's sad is how you guys attack the person instead of defending the pyramid scheme you've all fallen sucker too.

 
At 5/15/2007 01:53:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What pyramid scheme? Have you called the FTC and ask them about whether or not Quixtar is a genuine opportunity or just another scam out there? Have you done that? If not, then yes, I understand, it's easy to make assumptions and beliefs based on those assumptions. I challenge you to call the FTC and ask that question. I would also encourage you to read that book; not to criticize you but to read it and see what you can learn about self change. You need it, me too.

 
At 5/15/2007 03:46:00 PM, Anonymous Someone Smarter than a Mindless IBO said...

No, I haven't contacted the FTC and I probably won't bother. Quixtar has a good BBB rating and is ok with the FTC because Quixtar does fine in the aspect of selling its products. There aren't any problems in the aspect of people being satisfied with the product they purchase and sell.

The issue is how people earn their money. They aren't getting an actual wage but instead they're getting a small percent back on what they sell as well as from the work people under them do. The "pyramid scheme" aspect comes here in which your upline benefits from the work of the people under them, such as you. This however may come from the expense of the purchase of all the motivational tapes, travel costs such as driving to the meetings, and the ticket costs to the conventions that spur people up.

If this isn't a pyramid scheme, or not something related to a scheme but a "multi-level management" business plan, then why do you need people under you in order for you to succeed and get a lot of money? If that wasn't the case, why can't you just do it yourself without anyone below you? You probably could but you'd need to sell those products by the boatload but why would people choose to buy a generic brand product in bulk when they can just buy what they need from a trusted brand at the local market? Or even go to their local Price Club / Costco.

 
At 5/15/2007 10:12:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"No, I haven't contacted the FTC and I probably won't bother."

Why not? Fear? Lack of guts? Your choice after all and so the rewards. No one forces you.

"The issue is how people earn their money. They aren't getting an actual wage but instead they're getting a small percent back on what they sell as well as from the work people under them do."

Getting a wage... do you even realize that we talk business here and not job income? A job income is pretty much fixed, a business income fluctuates up and down as you say, like a percentage based on moving products and services. What would you expect a business owner to make, an actual job wage? Seems to me that's exactly what you would expect. Besides, what is unusual in earning a percentange based on the work of people under? isn't that how a franchise operates? Isn't that how your employer leverages his time and money by having others work for him? In this business, others work for themselves with you, not for you!!! HEY!!!

"The "pyramid scheme" aspect comes here in which your upline benefits from the work of the people under them, such as you."

That is the perfect description for a job. In this business, others work for themselves with you, not for you! So, what that means is that someone in your group can make more income than you would even if that person is under you! Doesn't quite resemble a pyramid in contrast with your job where your income is pretty much fixed and besides this, who makes the most money at your work place? You or your boss? If you do then, you probably are your own boss already and thus, it makes me wonder why you still talk about having a job yourself after all. It seems that employee mentality manifests itself in you quite visibly.

"This however may come from the expense of the purchase of all the motivational tapes, travel costs such as driving to the meetings, and the ticket costs to the conventions that spur people up."

Spur people up? Hey, everything in this business is optional and as a matter of fact, it is even optional to be in business for yourself! Don't complain especially if you are not sure your complaints are valid. First, seek and you will find. Yes, money is being made off the educational system too but that is an entirely different entity and its merits outweight its incoveniences in that it builds people up despite their discomfort in the change process. Now, I assume that you probably won't even read that book "Why you are dumb, sick and broke" by Randy Gage despite the fact that it's not even in the educational system powering Quixtar IBOs (you can find it in bookstores in the finances/business section) because you feel it too brings discomfort about your personal change down the road. You don't have to be dumb, sick and broke but no one suggests that you have to be the alternative either. Your choice.

"If this isn't a pyramid scheme, or not something related to a scheme but a "multi-level management" business plan, then why do you need people under you in order for you to succeed and get a lot of money?"

Simple answer. Why does your boss need people under him? In his case, people work for him that is why he is their boss. That way he succeeds in making a lot of money. I succeed too but in my case, I have people working for themselves and I work with them. That way, they grow and so do I. At your job, your boss grows but not you; you are his commodity.

"why would people choose to buy a generic brand product in bulk when they can just buy what they need from a trusted brand at the local market? Or even go to their local Price Club / Costco."

People buy what they want and how they want to. I don't enforce choices upon them. If they see an incentive they would go for it. In this case, shopping smarter and not necessarily cheaper is a tempting incentive. How? Make money while you spend by becoming an entrepreneur taking advnatage from his very own buying power. This concept is documented in a book called " Pro-Sumer Power: How to Create Wealth by Buying Smarter, Not Cheaper" by Bill Quain who has a PhD in economics.

http://www.bestwebbuys.com/Dr_Bill_Quain-author.html?isrc=b-compare-author

You really need to learn what it means to develop business mindset if you want to talk, much more, if you want to have a business of your own. So far, you have awesome employee mentality maybe too much for what it's worth. Of course, given that, you won't succeed in business ventures of any kind, much less, understand business from the point of view of a business owner.

 
At 5/19/2007 11:36:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

to "someone smarter than mindless IBO."

When people above you benefits from your business it's not called pyramid scheme, that's called smart business cause this pays him for the works he's done. Now if you do more work than him you will earn more money than him even if your 20 deep, where's the pyramid shape right there?
You know where the pyramid shape is?
In your job. You job is a pyramid scheme. How? Think about it.
You have the owner who get's the most $, then you have the CEO's, then you have the big managers, now as I keep mentioning the pyramid keeps forming down cause as you keep going down there's more people and every position down is less wage, ok, then you got the normal managers, then you got the supervisors, then you got the emploees who will never earn more than the supervisors, and the supervisors who will never earn more than the people above them no matter how harder thay work, and so on. PYRAMIIIIIID!
All the people above are making $ out of people that are below them, cause if people below them don't perform, the people above or either get's hammered and finally fired, or the whole company go broke.
PYRAMIIIIIID.

 
At 5/20/2007 03:20:00 AM, Anonymous Someone Smarter than a Mindless IBO said...

To anonymous that posted on 5/19/2007 at 11:36:00 AM:

A job in the working world is not a pyramid scheme. Do you even know what a pyramid scheme is? What a job in the working world is, is actually a corporate pyramid. You progress higher in the pyramid as you gain more qualifications and experience for the job. You get an entry level position and work up from there to earn more money as you progressively gain more experience and qualifications.

If you want the definiton of pyramid scheme, please refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme or http://www.answers.com/pyramid+scheme&r=67 but to make it shorter for you and provide a clear example, how about Quixtar?

They try to convince you that you're an "independent business owner" and it's all a part of franchising, with the diagram they show you of the "plan" in which they use a franchise such as McDonalds as an example. When they lay out the diagram, it's so obvious you have a pyramid in front of you. You've got the one person at the top, branching out with oh, 5 people under you ... then those 5 people branch out with oh, 2 each and each person makes a certain amount of money but you at the top get a certain % cut of it from each person. That's where the pyramid scheme is for Quixtar. You try to get people to join under you so you can be their "upline" or "mentor" to "help" them "succeed" and give them "guidance". You get to the point where hey, you don't need to do any work! All your cash flow is coming in from the hardwork of the people from, where? Oh, under you! Who's doing all the hardwork? Apparently not you after you get enough people under you.

However, in Quixtar, no one's getting paid an actual salary or wage for the work they do, but instead a percent back on what they buy, what they sell, and what people under them make. You get all those "PV" points for buying, selling, etc but what's the point when if you spend 200 bucks, you only get 6 or 7 dollars back for it? You're obviously not making any profit, but losing 7 dollars less. They make you think you're better off doing this because you're getting some cash back on stuff you "normally" buy on a daily or monthly basis, but that whole incentive of a couple dollars back spurs some people up to buy more often than they normally do.

Also, some people even buy stuff from their own "business" in Quixtar in order to get over a certain percent to reach a higher level.

A job in the working world does not have anyone losing money to the person above them because they're trading time for money through work. The people above you in the corporate world are there because they're qualified to be there after years of hard work and experience.

Referring back to http://www.answers.com/pyramid+scheme&r=67 we see the definition where: Investopedia Says: A pyramid scheme is initiated by an individual or a company that starts recruiting investors with an offer of guaranteed high returns. As the scheme begins, the earliest investors do receive a high rate of return, but these gains are paid for by new recruits and are not a return on any real investment.

Notice the aspect where "the earliest investors receive a high rate of return" ? They're the diamonds. The diamonds are the ones that get in Quixtar early in their community. They're the ones that get the people under them first and those people under them get people under them, etc.

You can continue to waste your time with this pyramid scheme. Sure, some people do succeed but that's only because they got there first or they've got one heck of a networking ability. What's more funny is, you're probably currently still working for "the man" you continually denounce because you can't quite retire from the scheme, oh wait ... the "business".

 
At 5/20/2007 04:58:00 AM, Anonymous Someone Smarter than a Mindless IBO said...

In reply to anonymous who posted on 5/15/2007 at 10:12:00 PM:

"Why not? Fear? Lack of guts? Your choice after all and so the rewards. No one forces you."

Did you happen to not read what I posted? I said "Quixtar has a good BBB rating and is ok with the FTC because Quixtar does fine in the aspect of selling its products. There aren't any problems in the aspect of people being satisfied with the product they purchase and sell." That's why I didn't bother to contact the FTC because it'd just be a waste of my time.

"A job income is pretty much fixed"

You get raises and when you move up to a higher position, your pay grade goes up a couple levels and your salary and wage gets adjusted due to annual raises and changes to the cost of living.

"What would you expect a business owner to make, an actual job wage?"

No, I don't but what you people are making is nothing guaranteed. However what's guaranteed is that you're doing the retail work for Quixtar and Alticor by selling their products. Again, you're only making a small percentage back, which is as you say, what a business owner probably would be making off each product they sell.

However, I don't see you all as "independent business owners" but more as a ... I can't really find the word to describe it really, but more of a contractor or maybe a pawn I guess? If you were an independent business owner, where are the people working for you and why is it that the "website" you say you own and run your business from, isn't really your own website but merely off a domain hosted by Quixtar or Alticor with your screen name on it ... kind of like geocities, angelfire, or any of the other free web domain host sites where they keep their own website name in the domain but have your screen name in the URL as well. If it was your own business, then why are you selling products from Alticor or whatever instead of stuff you'd really want to sell? Why do you have to have an upline or attend meetings to learn how to be a better business owner? If you're an independent business owner, then why are there millions of other people just like you, saying the same thing and all working under or signed up under Quixtar?

If you're an independent business owner, then why do you have to work through Quixtar, via a contract and why can that contract be broken and your status of an independent business owner be revoked? If you really were an IBO, you wouldn't have to deal with all that would you? You'd just have to be your own person and have people working under you if needed, and you'd pay them a wage or salary if needed for their work for your "business".

"That is the perfect description for a job. In this business, others work for themselves with you, not for you!"

Please refer to my post rebuttaling the other anonymous. A job in the corporate world again, is not a pyramid scheme but more of a corporate pyramid in which you progress higher as you gain experience and credentials to qualify for what that job entails and requires of you. If others work for themselves with you in Quixtar, then why do you have uplines? Why do you have different levels of "IBOs" and why do you have people making tons of money when they aren't even lifting a single finger, and people making barely any money to get by when they invest hours of their time and hundreds of dollars of their own money?

My boss may be making more money than me, but that's because they possess more experience and qualifications than I do. They deserve the job they have and the stress and obligations of that job fit the salary they make.

"Spur people up? Hey, everything in this business is optional"

Optional yes, but when I went to one of the Quixtar meetings I was invited to by a friend several months back, they had the motivational material laid out on a table and people were asked to purchase them and read up to enlighten themselves. If I may, you've probably already seen this link many times and I'll just link it again. Dateline NBC did a special on Quixtar and the whole motivational material part:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4375477/

The link is there, feel free to check it out at your own disposal.

The friend that invited me has already paid over 200 dollars in books and CDs and he said he would've purchased more DVDs if he didn't control himself. Sure, it's built him up and his confidence and self-esteem is higher than ever, but he's not succeeding much more than he was before. In fact, he's doing worse off financially considering the amount of money he's put in to Quixtar and the tiny return of money he's gotten back. Not only that but if he continued to work a steady normal job for the 6 months he's been in Quixtar, he would've been much better off financially now than he was before.

"Now, I assume that you probably won't even read that book"

Your assumptions are correct. I don't really see the need for me to read that book but I sure as heck would like to say it does not bring any discomfort to me and this "personal change" you're jesting about doesn't even apply to me. Heck, I don't even know what point you're trying to drive at about "personal change" unless you're trying to brainwash me from my current mentality to try and get me into Quixtar.

"Simple answer. Why does your boss need people under him? In his case, people work for him that is why he is their boss. That way he succeeds in making a lot of money. I succeed too but in my case, I have people working for themselves and I work with them. That way, they grow and so do I. At your job, your boss grows but not you; you are his commodity."

The job I have doesn't place my boss or any of the people above them in a position where they benefit financially from the work that the people alongside them or under them do. Heck, most jobs don't even place the boss in a position where they benefit financially off the work people under them do. Only the owner of that business benefits really. To add, I consider the boss the person in charge in an administrative or managerial position. As you say, "you are his commodity", aren't the people you get under you who "work alongside you" your commodity as well? Without them, you won't be able to make barely as much money as you can. When you say, "work with them", you mean teach them the "plan" and how to do it "correctly" as well as provide moral and social support so when they have doubts about Quixtar, you refresh them about the positive aspects and what they can potentially be and achieve?

The stuff my friend spews at me just chastises me to a degree in which I realize how brainwashed they are and the propaganda that gets fed into their minds about those who "quit" or "fail" in Quixtar because they don't follow the "plan" or just don't have the "will" like the people who succeed. Heck, that latest Quixtar commercial "The Land of Will" where you can find the link to on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzB80KvKfz8 has stuff about how "there will be doubters". I don't even see the real point of the commercial. All it shows is if you have the "will", then you can make anything possible. What's the point of even throwing the "doubters" part in? Does that not highlight the fact that people are brainwashed and conditioned to give certain replies in relation to the feedback they receive from peers and people who are skeptical about Quixtar?

"You really need to learn what it means to develop business mindset if you want to talk, much more, if you want to have a business of your own."

If I wanted a business of my own, chances are I wouldn't get it with Quixtar. Referring back to an earlier point, I just don't see how people who say they're independent business owners through Quixtar even consider they're actual real small business owners considering there's no employees under them, they don't create their own products that they sell, they're signed on by a contract and have to pay the fee to be considered a business owner, etc.

In the "plan" from what I've seen, they say the "middle man" is eliminated. They're not eliminated at all. The "IBO" of Quixtar becomes the middle man in the transaction of the product from the wholesaler / producer to the consumer.

 
At 5/22/2007 01:33:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My answer to the "Someone Smarter than a Mindless IBO."

How more stupid can someone get!
Sometimes people think in a way that just baffles my mind.

Look! Did you know that you can be 20 people below me and earn much money than I do if you do better than me? Where's the pyramid shape there?
Your stupid job is a pyramid and you just admit it. Go ahead try to make a good lifestyle out of it steping in peoples faces to get to the top, if you do. And the higher you get, the less time you have for your wife and kids because of the greater responsibilities the bigger possition demands from you, stealing away your familys time. That's what you want? Yea? Ok, go betray you family, don't hustle in life to spend more time with them, be someelses slave til you're 80.

And what's wrong with you having many legs earning all that money? Are you kidding me, are you in drugs, or are you just jealous?
That person did the work and he's receiving his reward. Go ahead and blame Bill Gates for not puting enough time right now to earn all that money he's receiving. Are you jealous of him too because of his past efforts?
Go ahead blame others for your failures and give exuses why you can't do it, pointing fingers that it's everybody's fault except yours, go ahead.

Geee! Give me a brake! That's why this country is the way it is, because of lack of sense and bunch of whimps.

Ooooh, the person has to spend $200 to receive a $7 cheq. OK go spend $200 on the mall and see what they're gonna give you back at the end of the month, go refer your friends to that store to see if they will reward you for it. Ha ha ha, not even a penny they'll give you. Hey, you're gonna spend the $200 somewhere else anyways, why not on your own store?

$7 now, but if you will do the work like you as a man should, it will be later on $20,000 and behond. You're the type of guy who would perfer $1,000,000 in one month than a penny doubled in one month which will go up to $10,000,000. "Oooh give me better $1,000,000, why do I want a penny doubled 31 times for? Foolish! Do the math.

Go depend on the government and on unsecure jobs and the hoax of social security retirement $. Go teach your kids the same thing. Don't teach them to work hard and smart so they can make a good living out of their life and reap the rewards. Don't teach them to do soemthing different, yet smart so they and their families can be prosperous and in good shape. Don't teach them to learn from people who made it, so they too can make it so with they money they can help much more people in the world.

Go depend on the half pay pention that your unsecure job will give you by the time you retire when you turn 80, if you can afford it.

Go make excuses of why you're a failure in life, blame the rest of the world.

"Ohhh, the one that succeed," you say. "are the ones who has special ability." Not really.
Abilities are learned through effort and hard work, just as your "special ability" that you have in your job, which was learned and developed by you through hard work and time.

Look, this business is not for whimps like you, this is not for cowards. So, as Bill Britt puts it, go hide behind the bushes and watch. Watch as the brave succeed.
Be an expectador pointing finger each time people fail and quit and say "see? It's not my fault."

Hey jealous, the people who're getting a lot of money in Quixtar are there because they already did the work and now are reaping the rewards. What else do you expect?
If they wouldn't be getting all that money then something's wrong with the business. That's pure evidence right there that it really works when you put all your efforts to it and never quit.
We who are getting those small percentage now will become like them or even greater if we too do the work. Unless we refuse to do it and quit, just like there's many people who start college and quit.
Only a very small percentage graduate, is it the colleges fault? Or is it the quitters fault? You tell me.

Do you really understand this business enough to make judgement against it? Do you?
If your answer is yes, then ok explain to me about the platinum bonus percentage. Don't know the answer?

You're either a person who're just going by losers opinions, or a quitter who once started and didn't do crap and now is blaming everyone else for your failures.

You don't have a heart for success?
Then go hide behind the bushes and watch!
But let us do what we got to do to help our families and this nation.

 
At 5/22/2007 01:42:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the people that had grat success in the business thought like the "Someone Smarter than a Mindless IBO" guy, they would be in a slump right now, being somebodyelses slave, forcing their wife and kids to work hard so they can make a living. Thank God they didn't hang out with people with such venoms as this guy, poor kids.


true.

 
At 5/22/2007 05:20:00 AM, Anonymous Someone Smarter than a Mindless IBO said...

To anonymous who posted on 5/22/2007 at 01:33:00 AM:

Wow, I think I hit a nerve. All that calm composure you presented in your previous posts is gone; the decent grammar too. You no longer pose any valid arguments nor are even making any real rebuttals to my points.

Yes, I did admit my job may possess a pyramid shape in the form of a corporate pyramid, but it isn't a pyramid scheme. Again, please re-read my posts so you can refresh your mind about my arguments pertaining to the corporate pyramid and what a pyramid scheme is. How would I be "betraying" my family by working to earn money to support them? Isn't that exactly what you're doing? Working in "the business" to earn money to support your family? Aren't you betraying your family by persuading your relatives to join under you so you can benefit from their work? So if I'm supposedly "someone else's" slave in the corporate world, aren't you someone else's slave in the Quixtar world? (hint: your upline). Aren't you being a hypocrit by denouncing "working for the man" when you're working under people and people are working under you? In essence, you're being what you hate the most: the boss.

To avoid being that which you hate, why not avoid having anyone under you and just work this yourself? Wait, that'd be pretty darn hard to succeed wouldn't it? Your success thrives on the work of others that are linked to you. Returning back to the family aspect, many corporate jobs provide day care facilities in the very building the parents work in, so their kids are right there if they want to come down and spend time with them. In addition, there are flexible schedules available so that the husband and wife can spend time with their families.

"And what's wrong with you having many legs earning all that money? Are you kidding me, are you in drugs, or are you just jealous?"

Jealous? No. I'm just frustrated that people are being scammed into thinking they can be diamonds and retire by their late 20s when only a rare couple people out of several thousand or several tens of thousands of Quixtar drones, actually come out as a diamond. Notice how they're called "diamonds"? Diamonds are pretty darn rare.

"Go ahead blame others for your failures and give exuses why you can't do it, pointing fingers that it's everybody's fault except yours, go ahead."

I'm not blaming anyone for anything. I'm merely presenting points to show how much of a scheme Quixtar is. You all just continue to give yourselves false hope, thinking all the expenses are only for a greater investment that will reward itself in years down the road. However, how can that be possible when you don't have anyone under you? How can that even be a viable choice when you can work hard with a real job during that time period between now and when you "would" break even in terms of your expenses and revenue and actually make a profit? As I said before, by the time you break even if you actually do, you'll be behind by so much time and money, you would've been much better off working like any normal person would.

"Geee! Give me a brake! That's why this country is the way it is, because of lack of sense and bunch of whimps."

What type of brake would you like? A car brake? Bicycle brake? Motorcycle brake? Your best bet would be to check out your local auto shop such as --- hah, just kidding. If you dislike this country and its people so much, then why are you still here? Why don't you go somewhere else? What's ironic is how you mention "lack of sense" and "bunch of wimps" (I corrected your grammar). The lack of sense is what I see within most of the "IBOs" and people who join Quixtar. Common sense presents the point that when your expenses are much greater than your revenue, you are making a net loss and should probably pull out. Common sense also presents the point that when you have people above you getting
a percentage off what you worked for and that the only way to succeed is to get people under you and have them do the same work as well so that you can benefit from their expense, then obviously you have a pyramid scheme. Again, refer back to what I presented before in a prior post about the definition
of a pyramid scheme.

In terms of a "bunch of wimps", how about the "IBOs" that go to grocery stores, department stores, playgrounds, baby showers, etc to try and get people into Quixtar so they can join under them and be their "downline" so those people can do all the hardwork for that person that recruited them? Or even those that hound their friends and relatives and try to get them to join? Real brave people actually do their own hard work to succeed. No, "hard work" doesn't mean going to the far efforts of learning "the plan" and recruiting as many people as you can under you so you can get money and sell products.

"Ooooh, the person has to spend $200 to receive a $7 cheq. OK go spend $200 on the mall and see what they're gonna give you back at the end of the month, go refer your friends to that store to see if they will reward you for it."

If I were to spend $200 at the mall, chances are there will be some mail-in rebates so I can get $20-50 or more back at the end of the month. If I refer my friends to those stores, they'd more than likely enjoy it too as the mail-in rebates seal the deal to buy the product. Lets say there aren't any mail-in rebates. I would most likely shop there for items such as clothes, etc. The social value of those clothes outweighs the $7 I'd get back at the end of the month if I were to purchase them through Quixtar. Not only that, but I wouldn't have to worry about shipping costs, waiting until the end of the month to reap the small rewards, the wait for the product to finally arrive at my residence, the wait to "dress and impress", and I could make that $7 by working a real job for it. In addition, I wouldn't even spend $200 at the mall regularly unless I really absolutely had stuff I wanted to buy there every month.

"$7 now, but if you will do the work like you as a man should, it will be later on $20,000 and behond."

$20,000? You do realize how much money I'd have to spend to achieve that right? How about the amount of time it'd take to even reach that? It's just not worth the time. If that were to push my drive to buy stuff more, then I'd be better off bankrupt and homeless because that's just plain idiotic.

"Go depend on the government and on unsecure jobs and the hoax of social security retirement $."

I'll gladly depend on the government for social security benefits. Although the social security fund might be exhausted by the time I'm of age to be able to receive such benefits, it won't really matter because I'll have a 401k and pension plans from my real job, investments and savings bonds, and insurance coverage to let me know everything will be just fine. When you tell me to "go depend on the government", aren't you depending on the government too? I thought you "IBOs" loved the government because the government "loves small business owners" by giving you tax benefits and write offs just because you have a "small business". If you hate the government so much, then why don't you pass on those benefits for small businesses? You don't want to, do you?

"Go make excuses of why you're a failure in life, blame the rest of the world."

Again, more insults towards me, but not in the defense of your pyramid scheme. I'm not even blaming anyone nor am I even making any excuses about anything.

""Ohhh, the one that succeed," you say. "are the ones who has special ability." Not really. Abilities are learned through effort and hard work, just as your "special ability" that you have in your job, which was learned and developed by you through hard work and time."

Could you provide an actual quote of what I said? I don't recall mentioning any of that which you quoted.

"Look, this business is not for whimps like you, this is not for cowards. So, as Bill Britt puts it, go hide behind the bushes and watch. Watch as the brave succeed.
Be an expectador pointing finger each time people fail and quit and say "see? It's not my fault.""

Again, refer to what I've said before. Why do you keep referring back to this infamous author and his books?

"Hey jealous, the people who're getting a lot of money in Quixtar are there because they already did the work and now are reaping the rewards. What else do you expect? If they wouldn't be getting all that money then something's wrong with the business. That's pure evidence right there that it really works when you put all your efforts to it and never quit."

Jealous? Far from it. Pure evidence? Could you please provide that? Again, those who are succeeding are success cases that occur once every several tens of thousands, even once every several hundreds of thousands.

"Unless we refuse to do it and quit, just like there's many people who start college and quit.
Only a very small percentage graduate, is it the colleges fault? Or is it the quitters fault? You tell me."

How can you compare Quixtar and College? A college education and degree comes through hardwork and perseverance by studying and gaining knowledge about a particular topic you may be interested in, in order to get a degree in that area and pursue a career in that area. Quixtar on the other hand, has success coming through the requirement of having people doing the work under you. Although both are investments, one has a higher guarantee of failure: Quixtar.

"If your answer is yes, then ok explain to me about the platinum bonus percentage. Don't know the answer?"

I don't know because I don't really care. Also, why is that even relevant to this discussion? From what I can tell, it supports my point of view as it shows that the higher you are in the pyramid scheme, the more benefits you receive thanks to the work of all the people under you that helped get you to that particular status.

"You're either a person who're just going by losers opinions, or a quitter who once started and didn't do crap and now is blaming everyone else for your failures."

I'm neither. I went to a meeting and got a first hand experience. One of my friends is also a Quixtar drone, so I've gotten plenty of experience from his downward-spiraling tale that has been in the making for over 6 months and counting.

"You don't have a heart for success?
Then go hide behind the bushes and watch!
But let us do what we got to do to help our families and this nation."

Oh, I do have a heart for success. It's just not correlated to the words "pyramid scheme".

 
At 5/22/2007 05:28:00 AM, Anonymous Someone Smarter than a Mindless IBO said...

To anonymous who posted on 5/22/2007 at 01:42:00 AM:

Again with the direct insults to the person presenting the arguments. Why don't you try defending your pyramid scheme with valid points and correct grammar? How would they be in a slump right now if they thought like I did? If they thought like I did, they'd probably be smart enough to realize how much of a scam the business practices are of Quixtar. They'd realize that it just isn't a viable option for income. Thankfully, there are people out there who do think for themselves and realize that Quixtar just isn't for them. What's ironic is, you guys are slaves to the upline and to Quixtar as you set your eyes on people at local markets like a vulture seeking its prey just to get people under you so you can try and reach that dream that is preached to you every week at your inspirational meetings and conventions.

 
At 5/22/2007 01:59:00 PM, Anonymous The Trump said...

In response to "anonymous"

"If the people that had grat success in the business thought like the "Someone Smarter than a Mindless IBO" guy, they would be in a slump right now being somebodyelses slave, forcing their wife and kids to work hard so they can make a living...."

I think it's quite funny how you have the audacity to equate slavery with having ambition. Businesses are founded on hard work and drive. As great as you may think "quixtar" is, and I assume you think you're not a "diamond back" or "CEO" which may or may not be true we'll see, it runs on this same philosophy of "supposed business slavery" as well. You work under a boss, not an ally or acquiantance or friend like your $15 meetings illicits (0-15= -15 keep score), and you get no wage. Sure its arguable that people have to be below to make money in the business world but slavery is not an appropriate word for it; those words must of come from your "motivational meetings".... If anything you are running your life on highway robbery. You are a hypocrite clear as day and you've proved it.

"Thank God they didn't hang out with people with such venoms as this guy, poor kids."

Hypocrisy at its finest^^^. You make these allegations from a religious stance and rhetorically you are the venom. That entire post was nothing but an attempt to make "smarter than a mindless ibo" look remedial. If anything, he's doing the world right by showing you the true terms of your "supposed" business.

Maybe if you spent more time reading and taking time to understanding his points, instead of trying to find material in your motivational speech books and tapes to counter him, you would learn something valuable.

-"true"

 
At 5/22/2007 06:23:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

slavery is not an appropriate word for it"

Yes, slavery is the apropiate word for it if you see corporate world in general. It is! no enough time spent, maybe 10 hours a day average, no enough money to feed and take good care of your family.
The bigger the position, yes, the bigger the cheq, but the smaller the time spent with your loved one cause of the responsibility and time the position demand. And also if you see the corporate world in general, most of the managers and supervisors are hammered so they can hammer you back even more so you'll get the work done as fast as possible, with 10 exact brake and 30 exact lunch (or they've be looking at their watch if your 2 mins late, and warning you, you have to be begging for permission to leave 2 hours early to do something important, the majority just make your life impossible treating you like a machine instead like a human being, and all that with a salary that they could of pay you double more if they wanted to, like many cases I heard of people being offered $7 an hour if they didn't choose to leave, but otherwise why they couldn't offer it in the beginning? Yes, this is slavery to certain degree.


That entire post was nothing but an attempt to make "smarter than a mindless ibo" look remedial. If anything, he's doing the world right by showing you the true terms of your "supposed" business."

Ok, ha, why would I listen to a broke person advicing me about finances and lifestyle?
No thanks, I rather listen to people who know what they're talking about through personal experiance and who lead by example.



Maybe if you spent more time reading and taking time to understanding his points, instead of trying to find material in your motivational speech books and tapes to counter him, you would learn something valuable."

Listen to yourself.
Valuable. Valuable? Being broke and a slave to work all your life is something valuable, no I rather be brainwashed by the truth.

 
At 5/22/2007 07:50:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, I think I hit a nerve. All that calm composure you presented in your previous posts is gone;
the decent grammar too. You no longer pose any valid arguments nor are even making any real rebuttals to my points.

>>Ok, who cares about the grammar? This is not a grammar class.
Let's keep going.

---------------------

Yes, I did admit my job may possess a pyramid shape in the form of a corporate pyramid, but it isn't a pyramid scheme. Again, please re-read my posts so you can refresh your mind about my arguments pertaining to the corporate pyramid and what a pyramid scheme is.

>>Your argument about Quxtar being a pyramid scheme I already proved it wrong 2 times, but let me do it for the 3rd time see if you finally get it.
If your 20 people below me you still can earn more money than me, get it? Where's the pyramid shape here?

----------------------

How would I be "betraying" my family by working to earn money to support them? Isn't that exactly what you're doing? Working in "the business" to earn money to support your family? Aren't you betraying your family by persuading your relatives to join under you so you can benefit from their work?

>>At least my work will last a few years and will make me and my family free. Yours will last 50 years and you're still probably going to keep working because of lack of money to support your life, if you're still alive.
What's wrong from benefiting from someone's work? Isin't that what the owner of the company you work for is doing?
At least I'm helping them get free in life. Is your boss doing that with you? Ooooh, you love him so much, you actually perfer to spend more time with him than with your wife and kids.

----------------------

So if I'm supposedly "someone else's" slave in the corporate world, aren't you someone else's slave in the Quixtar world? (hint: your upline).

>>You mean my coach? My trainer? The person who's helping me succeed in the business? His slave? That's not the case since he's helping me just like your coach would if you're in a team, but even if it was, If that's what it takes only for a couple of years, then so be it. But I rather perfer thatand then finally be free and wealthy than be your boss slave for 50 years and still be broke and stupid because of still not learning the lesson. By that age many people are so programed and attached to their jobs that they literary can't live with it and keep working, they go mad. Their jobs become their identity.

--------------------------

Aren't you being a hypocrite by denouncing "working for the man" when you're working under people and people are working under you? In essence, you're being what you hate the most: the boss.

>>What sense would it make to have the business and not have anyone under you or over you?
I don't work for anyone, I have leaders, coaches, teachers and mentors, not bosses, people who have done it and are teaching me how can I do so.
Me being a boss? No. I become a leader just as they are.
There's a difference between a boss and a leader.
A boss dictates, even though he haven't even done it before.
A leader is trained and lead by example and by mentoring.

-----------------

To avoid being that which you hate, why not avoid having anyone under you and just work this yourself? Wait, that'd be pretty darn hard to succeed wouldn't it? Your success thrives on the work of others that are linked to you.

>>Again, so? What's wrong with that? Smart business, so is my downline's business when they do the work.

----------------------

Returning back to the family aspect, many corporate jobs provide day care facilities in the very building the parents work in, so their kids are right there if they want to come down and spend time with them. In addition, there are flexible schedules available so that the husband and wife can spend time with their families.

>>One out of how many have this day care thing?
Also I rather raise my kids myself than have another raise them up for me.

---------------------

"And what's wrong with you having many legs earning all that money? Are you kidding me, are you in drugs, or are you just jealous?"

Jealous? No. I'm just frustrated that people are being scammed into thinking they can be diamonds and retire by their late 20s when only a rare couple people out of several thousand or several tens of thousands of Quixtar drones, actually come out as a diamond. Notice how they're called "diamonds"? Diamonds are pretty darn rare.

>>You're darn right.
But the bottom line you can't deny is that those who become rare jewels did what they were told to do by their mentors, and those majority that never became diamons, didn't. That's just how it is in every aspect in life, even in your job, how many CEO's are there? How many out of thousands in your company will become CEO's and big managers? 1 out of 1,000? Rare jewel! Get out of there, quick!
In the corporate world, is all about conections.
At least in Quixtar is all about who does the work no matter who it is, if you studied or not, your backround and experience, or who you know. Everyone has the same chance for success.

---------------------

"Go ahead blame others for your failures and give exuses why you can't do it, pointing fingers that it's everybody's fault except yours, go ahead."

I'm not blaming anyone for anything. I'm merely presenting points to show how much of a scheme Quixtar is.

>>Answer me this question.
Is what quixtar doing, is it consider an illegal scheme?

----------------

You all just continue to give yourselves false hope, thinking all the expenses are only for a greater investment that will reward itself in years down the road. However, how can that be possible when you don't have anyone under you?

>> You're right! It can't be possible if you don't have anyone under you (you can still have clients thou, but let's not count that additional money).
So the soultion? Get people under you, just like all those Diamons and Platinums did! Listen to how they did it, so you too can learn!

-----------------------

How can that even be a viable choice when you can work hard with a real job during that time period between now and when you "would" break even in terms of your expenses and revenue and actually make a profit?

>>The type of profit you make on a job is not a real profit, but a living. Money so you can survive according to your cost of living (if you can afford it, the majority don't) until you die.
Don't make any sense to choose that path knowing that you can choose a better one.

-----------------

As I said before, by the time you break even if you actually do, you'll be behind by so much time and money, you would've been much better off working like any normal person would.

>>Go tell that to all those Platinums, Rubies, Emeralds and Diamonds to see how they'll just laugh in your face.

---------------------

"Geee! Give me a brake! That's why this country is the way it is, because of lack of sense and bunch of whimps."

What type of brake would you like? A car brake? Bicycle brake? Motorcycle brake? Your best bet would be to check out your local auto shop such as --- hah, just kidding.

>>Ha ha ha ha ha, good one.

--------------------

If you dislike this country and its people so much, then why are you still here? Why don't you go somewhere else?

>>I never said I dislike this great country. If I did, quote it to me.
I did said that this country is full of wimps, it's in bad shape.
Democrat mentality makes you that way.
True.

-------------------

What's ironic is how you mention "lack of sense" and "bunch of wimps" (I corrected your grammar). The lack of sense is what I see within most of the "IBOs" and people who join Quixtar. Common sense presents the point that when your expenses are much greater than your revenue, you are making a net loss and should probably pull out.

>>Thanks for correcting my grammar, I should hire you to be my secretary.
Pull out? So when you have a goal to fulfill and things start getting rough, that's your soultion? To pull out, to quit?
I rather fight it til the end. Many great victories is gained when you persevere now matter how tough the going get's. Maybe it won't get as tough as you're mentioning if you listen and did what you coaches are telling you to do. Obviously you don't know a bit about successful business, all of them were in the slump at one point in their life, but because they persevered, they pulled out toward success instead toward quitting.

-----------------

Common sense also presents the point that when you have people above you getting
a percentage off what you worked for and that the only way to succeed is to get people under you and have them do the same work as well so that you can benefit from their expense, then obviously you have a pyramid scheme.

>>I'm not going to go through this for the fourth time. I already proved to you how this is not a pyramid schemed, and you already proved to me that your job is a pyramid.

----------------------------

Again, refer back to what I presented before in a prior post about the definition
of a pyramid scheme.

>>Don't need to!

-------------------------

In terms of a "bunch of wimps", how about the "IBOs" that go to grocery stores, department stores, playgrounds, baby showers, etc to try and get people into Quixtar so they can join under them and be their "downline" so those people can do all the hardwork for that person that recruited them?

>>What's wrong with that. We don't force anybody. It's their choice if they want to helped or not.

----------------------

Or even those that hound their friends and relatives and try to get them to join? Real brave people actually do their own hard work to succeed.

>>Our leaders teach us not to hound or force anybody. If you see someone being that way, then that person is not listening to the advice if his uplines.
Yes, real brave people do thir own hard work to succeed, I agree on that. And if they're smart, they do their own smart work to succeed even greater.

----------------------

No, "hard work" doesn't mean going to the far efforts of learning "the plan" and recruiting as many people as you can under you so you can get money and sell products.

>>I bet you would love to be a diamond if someone gave you the position for free. Accept it, wouldn't you? Hu? Cmooon.
Do the smart work and you shall succeed, enough said.
Hard work will get you make a living.
Smart work will give you a lifestyle.

----------------------

"Ooooh, the person has to spend $200 to receive a $7 cheq. OK go spend $200 on the mall and see what they're gonna give you back at the end of the month, go refer your friends to that store to see if they will reward you for it."

If I were to spend $200 at the mall, chances are there will be some mail-in rebates so I can get $20-50 or more back at the end of the month. If I refer my friends to those stores, they'd more than likely enjoy it too as the mail-in rebates seal the deal to buy the product.

>>You're limited to the mail in rebate whcih will never make you wealthy no matter how many people you refer to the store. And your friends would perfer for you to help them be wealthy than to help them get 10% off the next purchase of $100 or more.

---------------------

Lets say there aren't any mail-in rebates. I would most likely shop there for items such as clothes, etc. The social value of those clothes outweighs the $7 I'd get back at the end of the month if I were to purchase them through Quixtar. Not only that, but I wouldn't have to worry about shipping costs, waiting until the end of the month to reap the small rewards, the wait for the product to finally arrive at my residence, the wait to "dress and impress", and I could make that $7 by working a real job for it.

>>Ok, it's your opinion. Spend your money on gas going back and forth then. How much is one hour of your life cost? $20 an hour? God spend $20 an hour of time to buy paper toilet, tooth paste, deorodant, etc, and making lines and receiving bad service from unhappy clerks. Go to the store to buy $30 worth of stuff and come out with $60 worth of stuff because of things in low prices and which most likely you won't even use. By the time you did all that you already spend a combination of more than a $100 in money and time.
At least we have the ditto delivery system, which saves us time, money, temptations and gives us a good servcice.

---------------------

In addition, I wouldn't even spend $200 at the mall regularly unless I really absolutely had stuff I wanted to buy there every month.

>>Good for you! But the majority of people are not as disciplined like you, they go with the deal I just mention above of spending $100 extra. But it's ok, nothing wrong. I just said this to prove you wrong.

---------------------

"$7 now, but if you will do the work like you as a man should, it will be later on $20,000 and behond."

$20,000? You do realize how much money I'd have to spend to achieve that right? How about the amount of time it'd take to even reach that? It's just not worth the time.

>>Ok, so you perfer to wait $50 to earn enough money to buy your medicines and make a good living, than 5 years so to say... ok, to make it long, let's put 20 years, to be wealthy and free, and give a good inheritance to you kids?
Go fly a kite!

--------------------------

If that were to push my drive to buy stuff more, then I'd be better off bankrupt and homeless because that's just plain idiotic.

>>Again, that's why you have other business linked up to you for, dummy.

---------------------------

"Go depend on the government and on unsecure jobs and the hoax of social security retirement $."

I'll gladly depend on the government for social security benefits. Although the social security fund might be exhausted by the time I'm of age to be able to receive such benefits, it won't really matter because I'll have a 401k and pension plans from my real job, investments and savings bonds, and insurance coverage to let me know everything will be just fine.

>>Guess what, 41K is a good thing, but is a more risk than doing Quixtar because you never know if your investemnts will go up or down. So you can loose a lot of money there, even if you do the work.

-------------------------


When you tell me to "go depend on the government", aren't you depending on the government too? I thought you "IBOs" loved the government because the government "loves small business owners" by giving you tax benefits and write offs just because you have a "small business".
If you hate the government so much, then why don't you pass on those benefits for small businesses? You don't want to, do you?

>When I said this I refered to depending on benefits and pentions, etc.
Yes, see? there's benefit on having your own business, you don't have to pay taxes!
Ha ha!

---------------------

"Go make excuses of why you're a failure in life, blame the rest of the world."

Again, more insults towards me, but not in the defense of your pyramid scheme. I'm not even blaming anyone nor am I even making any excuses about anything.

>>More insults on you? No, it's not my intention. You don't have to stay that way.
But how about the screen name you decided to put? "Someone smarter than MINDLESS IBO's?"
You're insulting, so don't be a hypocrite.
And yes, your excuses about Qixtar are evidence that you are making excuses and that you are blaming them for your lack of success.

----------------------

""Ohhh, the one that succeed," you say. "are the ones who has special ability." Not really. Abilities are learned through effort and hard work, just as your "special ability" that you have in your job, which was learned and developed by you through hard work and time."

Could you provide an actual quote of what I said? I don't recall mentioning any of that which you quoted.

>>Who said that I quoted you?
This is not a quote of you?
I just said what you meant, but not a direct quote.

-------------------------

"Look, this business is not for whimps like you, this is not for cowards. So, as Bill Britt puts it, go hide behind the bushes and watch. Watch as the brave succeed.
Be an expectador pointing finger each time people fail and quit and say "see? It's not my fault.""

Again, refer to what I've said before. Why do you keep referring back to this infamous author and his books?

>>Ha ha, see? You don't know what you're talking about.
This is not an author.

-----------------------

"Hey jealous, the people who're getting a lot of money in Quixtar are there because they already did the work and now are reaping the rewards. What else do you expect? If they wouldn't be getting all that money then something's wrong with the business. That's pure evidence right there that it really works when you put all your efforts to it and never quit."

Jealous? Far from it. Pure evidence? Could you please provide that? Again, those who are succeeding are success cases that occur once every several tens of thousands, even once every several hundreds of thousands.

>>Read the above responses for more info on this.

-----------------------

"Unless we refuse to do it and quit, just like there's many people who start college and quit.
Only a very small percentage graduate, is it the colleges fault? Or is it the quitters fault? You tell me."

How can you compare Quixtar and College? A college education and degree comes through hardwork and perseverance by studying and gaining knowledge about a particular topic you may be interested in, in order to get a degree in that area and pursue a career in that area. Quixtar on the other hand, has success coming through the requirement of having people doing the work under you.

>>Smarter method than what college offers, ain't it great?

-------------------------

Although both are investments, one has a higher guarantee of failure: Quixtar.

>>Same as college if you quit too.

--------------------------

"If your answer is yes, then ok explain to me about the platinum bonus percentage. Don't know the answer?"

I don't know because I don't really care. Also, why is that even relevant to this discussion? From what I can tell, it supports my point of view as it shows that the higher you are in the pyramid scheme, the more benefits you receive thanks to the work of all the people under you that helped get you to that particular status.

>>The revelance that is has in this discussion is your lack of knowledge about the business. Yor'e making so many judgements against it and you don't even know how it works.
Again, pyramid scheme, I already proved to you why is not and why your job is.

-------------------------

"You're either a person who're just going by losers opinions, or a quitter who once started and didn't do crap and now is blaming everyone else for your failures."

I'm neither. I went to a meeting and got a first hand experience. One of my friends is also a Quixtar drone, so I've gotten plenty of experience from his downward-spiraling tale that has been in the making for over 6 months and counting.

>>Ok. You went to a meeting and let your skepticism get in the way of your intelligence, it's not my fault, nor Quixtars.
And it's not Quixtars fault either if the guy who invited you DECIDES to quit and not do what he has to.

-----------------------

"You don't have a heart for success?
Then go hide behind the bushes and watch!
But let us do what we got to do to help our families and this nation."

Oh, I do have a heart for success. It's just not correlated to the words "pyramid scheme".

>>Good! Me neither.

5/22/2007 05:20:00 AM


Someone Smarter than a Mindless IBO said...
To anonymous who posted on 5/22/2007 at 01:42:00 AM:

Again with the direct insults to the person presenting the arguments.

>>Look who's talking hypocrite. Erease your screen name first and then talk.

-------------------------

Why don't you try defending your pyramid scheme with valid points and correct grammar?

>>I already did!
About grammar, this is not a grammar class, so I don't give a darn.

---------------------

How would they be in a slump right now if they thought like I did? If they thought like I did, they'd probably be smart enough to realize how much of a scam the business practices are of Quixtar. They'd realize that it just isn't a viable option for income.

>>Huh, they think that way and become like you, and stay broke for the rest of their lives because of stupidity, struggling to life and teaching their kids to do the same thing.

-------------------------------

Thankfully, there are people out there who do think for themselves and realize that Quixtar just isn't for them. What's ironic is, you guys are slaves to the upline and to Quixtar as you set your eyes on people at local markets like a vulture seeking its prey just to get people under you so you can try and reach that dream that is preached to you every week at your inspirational meetings and conventions.

>>I perfer to be brainwashed by the truth that to be brain trashed by the loosers mentality.


Best regard,

Anthony T.

 
At 5/22/2007 10:38:00 PM, Anonymous The Trump said...

"Listen to yourself.
Valuable. Valuable? Being broke and a slave to work all your life is something valuable, no I rather be brainwashed by the truth."

Its funny how once again you are just attacking with assumptions about lives you have no idea about. The more we write, the more you'll quote us and attempt to qualify us as "broke" and "non-conformists" to the cult you are so amazingly fond of. <--- Quote some more please!!! There is no changing your mentality on your eventual downfall and that is fine. If you would like to recommend me one of your Quixtar books about "How Extensive Expenses and Extremely Limited Revenue = Profit", please do not hesitate to include it your next assault against people you have no idea about. <--- "Quote that too"

 
At 5/22/2007 10:45:00 PM, Anonymous The Trump said...

>>"I perfer to be brainwashed by the truth that to be brain trashed by the loosers mentality."

For some reason, that sounds quite familiar...ahhh, one of those $15 Quixtar meeting speeches that make Quixtar retail salesman..I mean IBOs the richest people in this society....No wait,....maybe it was one of those $40 tapes. Could you tell me which?

Best Regards,

The truth

 
At 5/24/2007 05:59:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its funny how once again you are just attacking with assumptions about lives you have no idea about. The more we write, the more you'll quote us and attempt to qualify us as "broke" and "non-conformists" to the cult you are so amazingly fond of.

>>Trump define for me what is a cult please because apparently you have no clue.
And when I say "broke" I reffer to the mentality you guys are demostrating that you have.

-------------

<--- Quote some more please!!! There is no changing your mentality on your eventual downfall and that is fine. If you would like to recommend me one of your Quixtar books about "How Extensive Expenses and Extremely Limited Revenue = Profit", please do not hesitate to include it your next assault against people you have no idea about. <--- "Quote that too"

>> "please do not hesitate to include it your next assault against people you have no idea about." There you go, quoted.

-----------------

The Trump said...
>>"I perfer to be brainwashed by the truth that to be brain trashed by the loosers mentality."

For some reason, that sounds quite familiar...ahhh, one of those $15 Quixtar meeting speeches that make Quixtar retail salesman..I mean IBOs the richest people in this society....No wait,....maybe it was one of those $40 tapes. Could you tell me which?


>>Not really. Look who's talking about assumptions.
First you're exagerating about the prices.
Second, even if they were that price, it would still be worth it, those things are priceless and essential to any business and to your life too.
Third, no I didn't get that quote from the CD's, tapes or seminars, see how you assume?
That quote is my own. I invented it.

Buddy, you can't deny the facts. When you go to a meeting you'll see many people who are up there and growing, that's proof enough for me.
I rather be like them and learn the Biblical principles they teach than to be chained by your mentality.

 
At 5/29/2007 01:43:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whew....what a discussion. I'm here doing that recommended research on Quixtar after watching some acquaintances move on and up after 5 years. I'll mention that I currently work full time, am a college grad, own 2 homes and have my 401k. I also started and ran a business for 5 years (gave over to my ex in divorce). This is what I see about Quixtar at first pass: you don't have to put up $20-100k up front to JUST get started; you don't have a monthly rental & utilities for the space to run it; you don't have to register and pay maintenance on an interactive website; you don't have to be open 7 days a week; you don't have to pay booth space at trade shows; you don't need a factory; you don't pay liability insurance on your products; you don't have to personally refund money if people aren't totally happy (and there always are some unhappy people); you don't have to keep running ads/having open houses/promote-promote-promote. Starting a business from the ground up is a 24/7 proposition which has a pretty high chance of failure. Franchises require an upfront fee plus kickbacks on all income. What I saw in Quixtar? None of the things I listed plus a chance to make new friends, get 'rebates' (for lack of a better word) for the stuff I'll buy anyway (and yes, I'm disciplined enough to buy the stuff I buy and that's it) and those tax deductions that are written to allow that kind of thing (without the investment of all the expensive infrastructure I already mentioned). I live in a very rural area where the two supermarkets are 20 miles away (1 way); wal-mart even further. At gas running over $3/gal for who-knows-how-long, the shipping rates seem to be less than the $20 it will take to get me to the store - not to mention the time it takes to go, shop, buy more than I need (impulse),etc. I've been told that there are meetings to attend - but also car pools to get to them.. The bottom line for me was thinking - will I get rich off this? Doubt it. Will I make more money than sitting at home paying the cable company or spending $$ on my hobbies? Odds are better. Will I help people here get better access to things like whole wheat pasta, 100% juice and cleaning products that aren't all water for the same or less money (while making their few cents too)? That's my hope. To my mind, it's better than taking a second job nites/weekends at McDonald's or Dunkin' Donuts - oh and those are over 20 miles (1 way) away too, and I can't deduct the mileage to get there... And if I make all that residual income, etc. they all talk about - well then, Hallelujah!! Now you can tell me where I'm stupid and missing the pieces...

 
At 5/29/2007 05:24:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There you go!

No, but Mr. Trump and the other guys hates the Walton because when they go to Wal-Mart to buy something they're making money out of them and not doing much.
They also hate Bill Gates because he's also making money off of people. Same with the Croc family and Mc Donalds, they hate them.

These guys don't know a bit about chain business. All they do is blame other of what they refuse to accomplish.

 
At 5/30/2007 04:36:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"To avoid being that which you hate, why not avoid having anyone under you and just work this yourself? Wait, that'd be pretty darn hard to succeed wouldn't it? Your success thrives on the work of others that are linked to you.

>>Again, so? What's wrong with that? Smart business, so is my downline's business when they do the work."

I'm not affiliated with any of those people you guys are arguing with but doesn't your response basically show the whole pyramid scheme aspect? Basically how you guys are benefiting from the work of those below you while you're doing nothing? Unfortunately they aren't getting much out of it since there might not be anyone below them to do the work for them. You realize that aspect exists in "the business" and you're not denying the immorality of it.

"As I said before, by the time you break even if you actually do, you'll be behind by so much time and money, you would've been much better off working like any normal person would.

>>Go tell that to all those Platinums, Rubies, Emeralds and Diamonds to see how they'll just laugh in your face."

Doesn't that support Someone Better than a Mindless IBO's argument though? All those Platinum, rubies, emeralds, and diamonds are a minority group of IBOs that rise up due to the amount of people under them that do the work to push those people up. You aren't including those people that do the work and don't benefit much from it since those above them are getting that push upward.

 
At 6/01/2007 06:09:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Doesn't that support Someone Better than a Mindless IBO's argument though? All those Platinum, rubies, emeralds, and diamonds are a minority group of IBOs that rise up due to the amount of people under them that do the work to push those people up. You aren't including those people that do the work and don't benefit much from it since those above them are getting that push upward.


>>To the other anonymous.
What people who do the work but are not getting much of it?
Did you know that those above them want them to succeed as much as they can? So the ones above them are helping them succeed.
Also if you're really doing the 9 core steps you're going to succeed sooner or later. It just happens.

 
At 9/09/2007 05:19:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

hey this is directed to someone smarter...can you give me at least 5 questions I can ask these quixtar people, because an upline is trying to recruit me. I would really appreciate some questions that could possibly stop these people dead in their tracks if you know what I mean? I absolutely agree with what you have been posting. When I had went to a seminar and heard the words and seen the people. I immediately thought of the movie, " The Devil's Advocate." I had pictured these people with demon like faces, and I could not believe how much these people had centered their life around money!? I am thankful for my job, as I was thankful for my father before me that pretty muched worked his whole life just to pass from away from a heartattack. I immediately felt as if these people only cared about themselves and when they explained their "rough times" in life they seem to trample on people that do live in trailor houses, and do drive 200 round trip to get food, clothing, etc. I had felt the urge to join and become an IBO, but as soon as I had read your blogs I have totally changed my mind. My family loves me, I love my job, we are well fed and our home is maintained. What more could we ask for. I will check back to see if you have responded, thank you.

 
At 10/30/2007 11:13:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

www.ftc.gov
www.bbb.org
http://westernmichigan.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=53&bbb=0372&firm=11002927
www.quixtarfacts.com
www.thisbiznow.com

 
At 11/08/2007 08:53:00 AM, Anonymous hi said...

HI

 
At 11/08/2007 09:01:00 AM, Anonymous Don't make the mistake said...

Ask them this...

Ask if you can sell the tapes, CD's, and other material that is sold in order to run these seminars. Ask them if they make money off of these materials. That is the way many of these people make money. They are platinum because they sell this material. There is another business that is run, but not by lousy IBO's.

I believe that Quixtar can be profitable, but sometimes these uplines treat people like they are 2nd graders. They act like this is the only way to make money in the world. I once said to my upline..."I am in real estate and make a lot of money doing that." His response was that real estate isn't what it is cracked out to be. Now that's funny!!

The dream that they talk of is truly a dream. Can it be accomplished? Absolutely. Can it be accomplished in their time frame? No way! My upline claimed to make a ton of money, but rented in a neighborhood that I wouldn't even walk through and drove a car that was 10 years old. Is there anything wrong with that? No, but it's kind of hard to believe that he is sooooo wealthy, but lives in a dump, renting, and drives a 10 year old car. If he was so smart financially, would he be renting for $900 a month? How does that make sense at all?

Don't do it...get a book or buy a video on real estate or tax liens and make money. Regardless of what they say, you must work to make money. I want others to pay me, not work for my money. They always rag on people that work 9 to 5, but then call those that are not platinums lazy and that they don't want to put in effort! How does that make sense?

Don't do it man, don't do it!

 

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